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I realized that the Pathfinder character I was using had some coding errors. Computer was rolling +20 for the attacks, so Codex had to try to block numbers in the 30s. I’ll have to try it again. One thing is that Power Attack is really powerful, popping out 20+ damage pretty easily.
One interesting idea to try out in a duel would be a typical Codex character of say, 5th level with 5 MF but a max of 30 hit points and historical weapons, vs something more like a typical Pathfinder character of the same level with ~70 hit points and a few magic artifacts, and more generic DnD type weapons and armor.
I was curious, I did a little battle. The two characters just tore each other up, round 4 the Codex guy died, but his opponent had 1 HP left. Basically they hit each other every round. The Pathfinder guy had a +15 attack that was hard to parry, and my duelist had a +12 attack that beat the 21 AC pretty easily. Just stood in place and hacked each other. My Codex guy used Lunge and Riposte but it was a pretty even battle.
Ok we have fixed the Pre-gen characters armor issue.
Great, I will check it out.
Have you read the sagas, like say, Grettir’s Saga or Egil’s Saga? Hrolf Kraki?
No, but I should put those on my reading list 🙂
Needless to say your fights will got a lot quicker if it’s not between two equally matched, experienced fighters with good armor and equipment and a lot of Martial Feats.
Definitely. I’ve fought some of the NPCs in your books and I made a few of my own. My 2nd level militia guys with spears and shields go down fast, although they can do some serious harm. I like how a low-level threat can still be dangerous. Part of the reason I’m doing this is to build PCs and see how they work against equal opponents with different feat combos. I suspect standard 3.5 characters would kill each other in about 3 rounds. There are just not much in the way of tactics in 3.5. Power attack, full attack.. kind of boring actually. The character building is all about maximizing AC, HP, attack bonus, and damage. I like how in your system a rich baron could arm villagers with polearms and good armor and have a decent fighting force.
What I noticed most was a lot of armor had the same DR vs. Piercing and Slashing in those character sheets. For instance, Johannes has Brigandine and Helmet listed as DR 8 for Piercing and Slashing. Looking at the core rules, Brigandine typically has 3 times the protection for Slashing (for instance Brigandine & Gambeson is listed as 6/12/18). I didn’t really study the sheets that closely, but I did see that on various characters.
I will have to play around with Slash and Chop attacks. It just seems like bypass is the only option if there is any decent armor. I guess you could just attack the armor instead. That seems kind of like cheating, is it really that easy to hack a chainmail shirt so it’s useless? Chainmail is listed as 6 Hardness and 5 HP so a nice chop or slash for 11 points would destroy it if I’m understanding the rules. I have no idea if it was that easy or not, I believe your team has done the research so I’ll trust your judgement.
I have played around with ranged weapons a little. I think a thrown weapon in the beginning of a battle is a good idea before they get in close. Bows have been dangerous, but it was easy to rush into range and engage them up close. If they try to back off for another shot that’s an opportunity attack (unlike standard Pathfinder rules that allows a 5-foot stop with no OA). I love how the bows are deadlier up close. A little more bookkeeping but more realistic for sure.
I always enjoyed Robert E. Howards original Conan stories because he used real history for his fictional world. Of course he threw in “low” magic and monsters, often fighting great apes, giant spiders, and “things from beyond (like Cthulhu)”. He mostly fought humans and he often wore armor when he could get it.
I have always been interested in history and that time you picked in the Baltic does seem to have a lot of opportunity for stories and adventure. I’ve always been interested in the Vikings myself although I don’t know how it would work for an RPG. Looting a coastal town doesn’t seem particularly inspirational for players that usually play heroes! The Eastern World is always fascinating as well.
I just finished that duelist vs. a halberd fighter with Distance Fighting, Poll-axe Fighting, Side Step, and Slip-Thrust. The polearm fighter dominated this one. He started every round with slip-thrust and the duelist kept moving away. Polearm guy just ignored the armor and punched through several times, effectively hitting for 3d6-1 with artful strike and armor factored in. He even voluntarily took damage just so he had more MP for attack to finish off his enemy. Duelist was unlucky with most of his Mezzo Tempo attacks. Battle lasted 7 rounds (which seems typical in my battles).
The fights very much feel like a duel. There is a lot of back and forth. I tried another fighter with the Meisterhau/Versetzen combo but he lost, too. It was a much closer fight, though. Now I’m trying that duelist vs. a Halberd fighter… slip-thrust is just nasty.
I’m not exactly sure how many martial feats you are supposed to have, I’ve been building 4th level characters with 4 feats. I made a 5th level guy with 7 feats and he just dominated. I think 1 feat per level seems good, but I’m not sure. I know 4th level is a good starting level for this system, so I am trying different builds. The pre-generated PCs are very interesting but not necessarily optimal for combat. I notice some armor values are different from the main rules but I imagine you are constantly updating those kinds of things. I find that Distance Fighting is almost essential (which requires Sidestep, using up 2 feat slots) unless you have a shield or buckler. I’ve build some shield users with Bind and Strike that were quite effective, although I gave them Viking shields which are easily torn apart (especially going up against a great axe).
Certain feat combos just work so well together. I’ve studied those builds on page 45. Some of the feats seem confusing, but that usually clears up during play. I find that 1-on-1 duels really help to learn the system. Sometimes I forget to do something (like Contra Tempo). Some of those feats requiring Slash or Chop attacks seem very limiting, as armor is so strong against those types of attacks. For instance Asbetzen requires the opponent using slash, chop, or bludgeon attacks.
I do appreciate your feedback. I don’t know if I’ll ever get a campaign going but I hope to. I would probably not use late medieval Earth myself. I think it’s perfect for Conan’s world and I might try that. Personally I would love a historical setting but I don’t know about my players. My old GM drove us crazy by constantly starting new campaigns with new systems and never actually finishing anything. I’ve GMed a Pathfinder campaign from 1st to 14th level so far, almost completing the story. The mindset would be very different with this system.
I will definitely keep an eye on your page for updates. I haven’t dove into your magic system yet. I might take a look at that Baltic book you’ve written for campaign ideas.
You definitely have similar interests to me. I’ve loved Lord of the Rings since I was 12, fan of original Conan stories, read some of those Grey Mouser books, etc. Conan even got knocked unconscious from a sling (easy enough in Codex, critcal Bludgeoning 4 die attack, failed his save). Loved the more gritty stories in general. Some game systems are just too gritty, I remember Arms Law/ Claw Law with all these horrific injuries. I think your system has a nice balance where you can survive. I love capping the HP at 3x Con, it always bugged me a high level guy could be hit with dozens of arrows with no effect. AC always bugged me, too. I just wonder how your system could work on an ongoing campaign. I’d have to convince my players but I don’t want them to do something they aren’t into. Anyway, thanks for feedback!
Thanks for checking on those PDF files.
I played Pathfinder last night and the characters were flying in the air, fighting devils and witches. One guy did something like 143 points of damage on a critical with his sword. I just don’t think I can convert my players to your system as much as I’d like to. The Codex rules are just so different from standard High Fantasy play (they are level 14). I can play with my son at least. Heck, I even enjoy solo battles. Maybe I can convince them to do a little side campaign or something. They are just used to being larger than life superheroes, mowing down enemies, taking on crazy monsters. I’ve always wanted to do something more gritty like your system. We’ll see what happens.
I bought the Monsterberg 1 and 2 adventures but the included character sheets are blank. I was hoping to get those character stats. I’ve played around with the included enemies in little skirmishes.
The “stalemate” fights were typically guys with Shields and Distance Fighting. So they were blocking with 3 dice every time. (That is right, isn’t it? One extra die for the shield, one extra die for the distance fighting). I know Murtieren and Fuhlen would break that up a lot. And maybe just jumping into grapple range (but that’s scary and dangerous). I’ll take some notes in the future and get back to you.
You don’t need to apologize, no worries. I don’t want to flood you with too many questions anyway. Thanks for the info. I thought the Feint check for that Feat shouldn’t cost anything.
I hope I can get my players to go along with it. Combat is quite different and very challenging at times. A battle can go on a long time. Even a 1-on-1 duel can take many rounds. I often notice in my playtesting that you are just waiting for an opening.. or a lucky critical. Evenly matched sides can be quite a battle, but when one side outnumbers the other just a bit the tide changes. In many of my tests I just decided one side would give up. I even played around with a pack of wolves and that was pretty interesting. I definitely feel the battles are more realistic… had one guy lose his sword because he rolled a 20 in response to his enemy rolling a critical. Sword was destroyed. The guy pulled out his dagger but the opponent just kept keeping his distance and finally slammed him.
Anyway, thanks for the responses!
Thanks for the info, I’m still trying to get the hang of some of those Martial Feats 🙂
Couple more questions:
1. Do you play with a grid?
(It seems like it would be easier without a grid. Onset could have a little space between figures, Melee would have bases touching, and Grapple would have bases overlapping.)2. Question on Failer:
Make a powerful strike or chop attack at your opponent, which must be a 2 die attack (or more). If they do not actively defend, then carry out the attack as normal against their Passive Defense.
If they do actively defend, then you may attempt to Feint them using a Bluff skill check.
Does this Feint check require another MP?
Thank you for the quick response. I’ll probably come up with some more questions but I don’t want to overwhelm you.
You mentioned “One of the major advantages with two handed weapons though is you gain a Free Dice in any bind”. I don’t see that listed anywhere in the rules, can you elaborate?
I would appreciate the old versions, thank you. I noticed some inconsistencies between the Quick Start, the Core Rules, and the Weapon/Armor/Missile Guides, and the Player’s Guide. For instance I don’t see armor check penalties anymore… now there are MP penalties. I imagine you guys are working on the editing.
I use Foundry VTT (it’s similar to roll20). I’ve automated many of the rolls. It’s works pretty well. I just got finished playing a battle with my son. He had an 8th level fighter (I guess that’s as high as you go) with a Greatsword and Chainmail Hauberk. He fought a 3rd level fighter with Greataxe and 5/10/15 armor / a 3rd level fighter with Longsword, Shield, and 5/10/15 armor, and a 2nd level fighter w spear/shield and 8/16/24 chainmail. Tough fight, 3 on 1. But the 8th level fighter prevailed once he killed the first guy. He was low on HP but he was last man standing. I’ve played Pathfinder and DnD for years and the battles were never like this. It always bugged my how AC worked. (I’m AC 20 but if I get woken in the middle of the night I’m AC 12. I can’t defend myself without my armor??) I’m thinking of doing Conan or a Pirate type campaign with this system. In fact I was looking over the old Conan d20 and there are some similarities.
My son didn’t bother with bypass, he just punched through. With Artful Strike he was piercing through that chainmail pretty well anyway.
I appreciate the responses. I have to say there is a learning process that is a bit tricky. So many decisions…
Some observations:
Daggers are nasty!
Shields are a pain. Destroy them.
Get up close to the spearman. Don’t worry about opportunity attack.
Punch through armor if you have a big weapon and you’re strong. Especially if you have some AP.
Save 1 MP (or more) for defense.
If you drop your weapon, pull a dagger out and enter grapple range. Ringen is vital.
Swords are versatile. Especially Medium ones.
